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101 Improv Games for Children and Adults by Bob Bedore
101 Improv Games for Children and Adults by Utah Improviser and Quick Wits owner Bob Bedore



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ryloc
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Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Started at Wed Sep 1 13:15:32 2004
how does this happen? why do people only come out to defend?

where's the excitement from day to day? why does it have to come from what one person thinks is an apparent attack?

this is all very childish... however, i'm okay cos i'm interrested in visiting this site and seeing new posts!!

i do hate how long some of these are tho.

devious


 
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LisaLoo


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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #1 Posted at Wed Sep 1 14:31:57 2004
Yeah, I don't know either. I'm on this site all the time, controversy or not. I wish we could have theory discussions that aren't "Which is better, short form or long form?" That's all we ever "discuss" on this board.

Like Wendy said in a different post, it seems there are other issues involved in these debates. I think that's why people get all riled up.


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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #2 Posted at Wed Sep 1 14:39:02 2004
hey lisa! i'm on this site all the time too. rolleyes

wendy's cool, huh? i bet you'll have a blast playing with her at ff2.

lisa, i sometimes wonder how the controversial posts are connected to the caves. obviously people advertise it, but i like to imagine some extra sensory perception that utah improvisers have.

*ears go up* what's that? someone bashed long form/short form? to the bat cave! err, i mean FROM the bat cave!

i wish people had esp for positivity though.


 
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Bob Bedore

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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #3 Posted at Wed Sep 1 15:03:46 2004
Sure... there's some truth to what Wendy and Lisa say, but there is another reason why this site goes into sleep mode until finally a controversy arises...

There is a huge gap between Improv Gods and Improv Newbies. It's hard to discuss anything because whenever a question is raised it's not met as a discussion but rather as a "here is why I'm right" type of thing.

I'm amazed at how people who've been around less than a year suddenly rise to God status and spout off (nay, regergitate) something that they read in a book and then a few of their underlings chime in that it's brilliant and a God is born.

I'm not trying to be negative, but that's what is happening. I've gone through many of the old posts and I see it time and time again. I've even pointed out various times in posts where I've given an opinion and then been told that I'm wrong (and here's why). I've even pointed this out to Ryan on one thread.

I would love to see a ban to all full on "your wrong" posts and see what happens. Yes, I will put the gag on myself.

But what is odd is that as soon as I get on people seem to think that I'm only going to attack. I'm some old dinosaur that has to take shots at people, but if you really read what I'm saying you'll see that I would like people to just agree to disagree and move on.

I will admit that I get caught up in things when it keeps going and I, myself, don't move on. But that's the way I am. I'm very opposed to racism and classism and I feel that what often happens on this site is a version of that and it upsets me.

Yes, it often seems like this type of thing brings out the Quick Wits Army, but that's mostly because we're the most outspoken about what we do. Look at the other "short form" troupes and you'll see that hardly any of them ever even get on the site. There is no Laughing Stock or Comedy Sportz forums here. I've talked to them and they look at this site as a Long Form only place.

In reality that's something that Ryan and Jesse need to overcome. And that will never happen as long as we keep seeing a "mine is better" bent to many on the site.

Now, if you really want to do something, go through the old posts that actually asked for help and bring them back to life. You'll find that a question asked two years ago is still a question that is worth answering.

Bob

 
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ryloc
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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #4 Posted at Wed Sep 1 15:15:08 2004
i'm gonna print that out and frame it.


 
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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #5 Posted at Wed Sep 1 15:52:33 2004
This site thrives on controversy mostly because theater people love drama wink Of course, people cry about controversy and then start controversial threads like this one, so what can you do tongue

I dislike that there is a long form only feel to this forum. I want to make that a goal for this year to change that.

-Jesster


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Jonny No No

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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #6 Posted at Wed Sep 1 18:52:07 2004
We're not calling people wrong anymore!!?? I wish someone would have told me that before I posted my "Joe Rogan Is Wrong" post.

I should probably go and put out the fire that reads the same thing that I started on his front lawn. This is what I get for missing staff meetings...

 
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Re: Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #7 Posted at Thu Sep 2 09:46:33 2004

That's weird...I don't think of this board as having a long-form-only feel. But maybe that's because I've been spending so much time on other improv boards that really have a long-form-only feel.

When you think about it, every troupe in Utah (and therefore every improviser who posts here) does short form, but not every troupe does long form. Interesting.

My hope is to someday see everyone feel welcome to this site!


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JoKyR

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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #8 Posted at Thu Sep 2 13:03:20 2004
Here are some things I love and hate.

happy I LOVE it when people attack my ideas and tell me I'm wrong. Especially when they tell me why.

happy I LOVE attacking other people's ideas, when I believe they are wrong.

angry I HATE it when people attack each other.

happy I LOVE it when people compliment each others' ideas when they believe they are right.

angry I HATE it when people try to defend other people because they think they've been attacked.

angry I HATE it when people try to defend themselves when they think they've been attacked.

angry I HATE it when people whine, complain, and think about locking threads because they are afraid of arguments involving other peoples' ideas, and the concepts of right and wrong.

And, last but not least,

cheesy I LOVE arguments. I love arguments about big all-encompassing ideas, and arguments about nitpicky little trivialities. I love arguments where people are passionate enough, and believe in what they are saying enough to call someone else's idea wrong. And, I love arguments where people are intelligent enough to express their opinions concisely, really listen to other peoples' arguments, and counter them point by point.

Arguments do not equal controversy.

Arguments incite people to think! And, just like Bill Clinton, when people think, I win (because they realize I'm right.) Much love! grin


-Sincerely,
Maestro Joseph Kyle Rogan
KYSOff Improvised Productions

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LisaLoo


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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #9 Posted at Thu Sep 2 13:35:15 2004
Uh oh, Joe, you're gonna hate this.

angryI HATE it when the only argument on here is the same one over and over again.


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JoKyR

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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #10 Posted at Thu Sep 2 13:41:55 2004
Me too.

*whispers* That's why I haven't even looked at the thread on art vs. entertainment.

wink


-Sincerely,
Maestro Joseph Kyle Rogan
KYSOff Improvised Productions

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Re: Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #11 Posted at Thu Sep 2 13:57:28 2004

On Thu Sep 2 13:41:55 2004, JoKyR wrote: (read quoted post)
*whispers* That's why I haven't even looked at the thread on art vs. entertainment.
oh, joe... you should... it's totally different.

tongue




 
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Re: Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #12 Posted at Thu Sep 2 14:58:21 2004

On Thu Sep 2 13:03:20 2004, JoKyR wrote: (read quoted post)
angry I HATE it when people whine, complain, and think about locking threads because they are afraid of arguments involving other peoples' ideas, and the concepts of right and wrong.

I hate it when people troll my board.

-Jesster




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JoKyR

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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #13 Posted at Thu Sep 2 18:52:00 2004
Troll?


-Sincerely,
Maestro Joseph Kyle Rogan
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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #14 Posted at Thu Sep 2 19:52:34 2004
Yes, troll.

-Jesster


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JoKyR

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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #15 Posted at Fri Sep 3 12:26:21 2004
Wow. Thanks, man! That was the most entertaining article I've seen in a long time. It speaks so seriously about something that seems to be quite tongue-in-cheek. But still, amazingly informative. No joke. happy

I especially like this passage:

"The term is frequently misused to discredit an opposing position in an argument. This usually amounts to an undefensible ad hominem argument: many views that have met with opposition and even the ridicule of experts have subsequently been found to be justified, so the label "troll" used this way is actually likely to indicate a correct but controversial position that is stirring up flames precisely because it has challenged a doctrine others actually realize is wrong. (It is quite possible to stir up controversy with a wrong argument, but these can more effectively be met by simply responding to the substantive issue.)

"Possible reasons people use more slang monikers in Internet-mediated discussion include the feeling of anonymity and impersonal perceptions of other conversants.

"Regardless of the writer's motives, controversial posts are virtually guaranteed, in most online forums, to earn a corrective or patronizing or outraged response by those who do not distinguish between real physical community, and a mere exchange of words and ideas. Customs of discourse, or etiquette, that originated in such physical communities are often applied naively by newcomers to the Internet who are not used to the range of views expressed online - especially due to increased anonymity."



-Sincerely,
Maestro Joseph Kyle Rogan
KYSOff Improvised Productions

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jesster
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Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #16 Posted at Fri Sep 3 12:43:38 2004
Glad to help. See you tonight.

-Jesster


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Re: Re: Cave awaking CONTROVERSY!  
  Reply #17 Posted at Fri Sep 3 17:11:19 2004
Last Modified at Fri Sep 3 17:11:49 2004 by jesster


On Wed Sep 1 15:03:46 2004, Bob Bedore wrote: (read quoted post)
There is a huge gap between Improv Gods and Improv Newbies. It's hard to discuss anything because whenever a question is raised it's not met as a discussion but rather as a "here is why I'm right" type of thing.

I'm amazed at how people who've been around less than a year suddenly rise to God status and spout off (nay, regergitate) something that they read in a book and then a few of their underlings chime in that it's brilliant and a God is born.


I thought a bit more about this. One would hope that people are not claiming to have more knowledge than others, especially those starting out. However, it is fine to have an opinion.

If you learn something, experience something, and you believe strongly in it, that is your opinion. You may feel that this is right, but it's important to be open minded to other people's experiences. But just by taking one class or seeing one show, you are going to have an opinion.

It's natural for the folks do disagree about something, experience levels or not. But it's also important to engage in constructive discussion rather than trying to play the status game ("I've done this for x amount of time more than you..." "I've been with this group for y years..." "I've lived here all my life and..."). And it is important for the people on the other side of the discussion to recognize what others bring to the table, especially in respect to experience and proximity.

And if someone is insulting, try to be civil, nod and say "anything else?", and know them to be an idiot and move on with your life. wink

Let's all respect each other, okay?

-Jesster


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Jeremy Lane Jersey  
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