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Nike ultimately unveiled the particular Nike Kyrie 3

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LisaLoo


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This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Started at Wed Dec 22 11:27:43 2004
Do you think saying, "This is the best ________ ever!" in an improv scene is really the f***-up that every single improviser makes it out to be?

Granted, I'm bringing this up because I have never ever said it before and I was embarrassed to be called on it last night, but it started me thinking. The reason it's so bad is supposedly because no one ever says that. But how much of the dialogue that goes on in improv scenes is stuff that people actually say? I agree that it's not as interesting a choice if you say it all the time, but what if the scene is about someone having the best time of their life? Or the best food they've ever had? Wouldn't it be an appropriate sentiment then?

I've been known to say "This is the best (chocolate/ice cream/cake/cookie/you get the idea) I've ever had"...IN REAL LIFE.




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ThatJenChick

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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #1 Posted at Wed Dec 22 11:46:13 2004
Last Modified at Wed Dec 22 11:51:21 2004 by ThatJenChick

I feel the reason why it's such a mistake is because it creates the belief that nothing could be better than said item/job/day that is the "best ever"
It tells the audience that is will only go down from here because not only is it the BEST ___....it's the best EVER....it can NEVER be better than that. As a society we crave growth and progression and when you stymie that deeply rooted need to advance you imprison yourself in a mediocre existence.
Rather than say "This is the best ice cream ever!" you should try "Wow...what very good ice cream...while I very much enjoy it, I still maintain hope that said ice cream could be improved upon at some future date, and I will await it's unveiling." Or how about "Though we are very good slaves, I would be hard pressed to say that there are no better, or that we shall never meet any who may help us aquire new skills."
You see the kind of world this opens up to you, not only as an improvisor, but as a member of the human race?


I guess I'm bi-coastal, if you consider the Mississippi River one of the coasts.
 
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jesster
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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #2 Posted at Wed Dec 22 12:09:52 2004
Best Theory Question EVER!

Like most comments in these types of classes, you need to take this with a grain of salt. The thing some people have against this phrase has a lot to do with heightening (where do you go from BEST EVER?), as well as from being overused. Just because something is trite, doesn't make it wrong. And ANYTHING that is done on stage should be treated like gold.

Best blank ever is just a goofy phrase that gets over used, but it's fine in doses. Don't ever let someone tell you that you can never do something on stage, because every situation is different. The note tends to be a suggestion to look for something fresher to say.

-Jesster


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LisaLoo


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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #3 Posted at Tue Dec 28 00:39:47 2004
Last Modified at Tue Dec 28 00:42:08 2004 by LisaLoo

Yes, good points all. I just get irritated that everyone focuses on the words themselves instead of considering the sentiment behind them. Putting "best" and "ever" or "worst" and "ever" in the same sentence together shouldn't be automatically dismissed...it's just another way of expressing the character's emotion and attitude toward something.

But you're right about trying to find new ways of saying something. I'm a writer so I try to avoid cliches like the plague...damn!


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ryloc
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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #4 Posted at Tue Dec 28 17:55:04 2004
hi lisa.

i'm guessing austin called you out on this, huh?
:P
hi austin.

it sucks when it's someone's first line:

scene partner: "the view from this hot air ballon is great."
lisa loo: "i love this! this is the best hot air balloon ever!"

um, yeah, whatever. it's fear from person 2. you gotta understand why you're saying it... if it's because you nothing about hot air balloon, then shame on you. you're afraid to add to the scene, and you just gave a cliche, stock improv line.

if you really feel that way, show us that you believe it, y'know? heighten the fact that it is the best ride you've ever had it... show us the stocked bar, the bb gun mounted to the side, the cunnilingus machine, etc.

um, but seriously, you've just set yourself up for a really awkward blueprint, that you need to follow through with, or else, you jusr said "yes" really enthusiastically and added nothing.

grain of salt, like jj said.

hi jj.

ry

oh, and hi jen.


 
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LisaLoo


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Re: Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #5 Posted at Wed Dec 29 17:56:26 2004

On Tue Dec 28 17:55:04 2004, ryloc wrote: (read quoted post)
um, but seriously, you've just set yourself up for a really awkward blueprint.


To quote you, Ryan, it depends. The scene I said it in was a mother-son scene, and I said, "Honey, you are the best hairstylist ever." To me that came out naturally as something a mother would say, because my mother says things like that all the time. It bothered me to be called on it because a) I obviously can't take criticism and b) I just happened to throw the word "ever" in there, and I don't think anyone would have said anything if I hadn't said "ever." I don't see anything wrong with a mother having a viewpoint that her son can do no wrong--it seems like that would make for a good scene.


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JeremiahPance

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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #6 Posted at Wed Dec 29 20:56:43 2004
And I was the best hairstylist ever, gosh darnit.


 
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jesster
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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #7 Posted at Thu Dec 30 00:00:48 2004
Lisa, it's not that it won't work, ever (heh) it's that it *can* create an awkward blueprint, not that it will. You can have wonderful scenes filled with negativity, transactions, and teaching. It is usually easier to try other things, but there're no definites in improv.

Now... read this *opens imaginary book* HILARIOUS!

-Jesster


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ryloc
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Re: Re: Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #8 Posted at Thu Dec 30 14:00:43 2004

On Wed Dec 29 17:56:26 2004, LisaLoo wrote: (read quoted post)
The scene I said it in was a mother-son scene, and I said, "Honey, you are the best hairstylist ever."...
...I don't see anything wrong with a mother having a viewpoint that her son can do no wrong--it seems like that would make for a good scene.
defensive lisa.

i'm pretty sure there's no way that scene would have been good.

grin




 
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LisaLoo


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Re: Re: Re: Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #9 Posted at Thu Dec 30 16:24:23 2004
Last Modified at Thu Dec 30 16:25:21 2004 by LisaLoo


On Thu Dec 30 14:00:43 2004, ryloc wrote: (read quoted post)
defensive lisa.


I told you I don't take criticism well.undecided
(I'm even being defensive about you calling me defensive.)


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Duff Man

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Re: Re: Re: Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #10 Posted at Thu Jan 6 11:24:10 2005
Last Modified at Thu Jan 6 11:27:38 2005 by Duff Man

Don't feel sad Lisa, Jesse is just a mean old man who smells like old man cheese.


That's how you deal with criticism, with old man cheese.

 
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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #11 Posted at Thu Jan 6 11:53:15 2005
But... but... it was Ryan... I...

GET AWAY, MOUSE!!

-Jesster


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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #12 Posted at Thu Jan 6 12:21:43 2005
wow, why am I so turned on? ah, right, the old man fetish.



I guess the reason people get so irked by 'this is the best blank ever' is because we've all heard it before...and I, for one, enjoy improv when it's surprising.


"it's my defense mechanisim"
 
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Duff Man

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Re: Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #13 Posted at Mon Jan 10 10:11:36 2005

On Thu Jan 6 11:53:15 2005, jesster wrote: (read quoted post)
But... but... it was Ryan... I...



Allright, fine. Ryan smells, too.

 
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JoKyR

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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #14 Posted at Sat Feb 19 19:37:50 2005
Hey, this is a neat little thread!

Personally, I think improvisers who consider this line to be a tragic faux pas are just following a Mick Napier wannabe trend. I know, because I'm a Mick Napier wannabe, myself.

"No one says this in real life." I don't care. Improv is not about realism. It's about honest dramatic action. Real people are too polite to be interesting in an improvised scene.

"It's a cliche." Well, yeah. But, so what? Just because something is cliche doesn't make it bad. If every scene that started with the line ended up being amazing, then it would still be a cliche, but you wouldn't hear so many people crying about it.

"There's nowhere to go after 'the best ever.'" Interesting thought, but it's a little too philosophically idealistic for my taste. In practical terms, I dunno if this is a big enough problem to warrant all the hate.

Now, let me pump up my ego, and attempt to speak for Mr. Napier.

The first place I heard about this line being bad was from Mick Napier. He lists it as one of the patterns he sees as signs of improvisers "being in their heads" in his book, Improvise. (Unfortunately, Greg Probst has my copy, so I have to go from memory.) So, let's assume that Napier is the primary source of the anti-best-ever sentiments.

Here's why he's against it:

Mick Napier's big philosophy is that improvisers need to make strong declarative character choices at the top of their scenes, to take care of themselves, and keep themselves out of their heads. Many modern improvisers and improv schools put too much emphasis on establishing and explaining the "who, what, where" at the top of a scene, rather than doing something more useful.

Now, Napier is (famously) against the whole concept of "Rules" and telling improvisers what not to do. So, it may seem a little ironic that he has a list of things he doesn't want you to do on stage. However, contextually, these are just patterns that he sees a lot from improvisers that are struggling, failing to make character choices, getting caught up in explanations and plot, and who are habitually "stuck in their head." They are things improvisers do because they think it's interesting, and they don't know what else to do.

Specifically, "This is the best/worst _________ ever." is problematic because it is almost always delivered without any character choice, by an improviser acting out of fear and weakness, who thinks the scene will be easier if he/she explains exactly what is going on in the scene. Furthermore, Napier is primarily concerned with improvisers saying this line at the top of a scene, where moments are critical and shouldn't be wasted on such rubbish.

The activity is not what the scene is about. So, rather than waste time telling the audience what you are physically doing, make a character choice and start up a relationship!

IF you make a character choice, have an emotional investment, and use the line "This is the best/worst __________ ever" to affect both your partner and yourself, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with using these words!


-Sincerely,
Maestro Joseph Kyle Rogan
KYSOff Improvised Productions

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Re: Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #15 Posted at Sat Feb 19 19:45:17 2005

On Thu Jan 6 11:53:15 2005, jesster wrote: (read quoted post)
But... but... it was Ryan... I...

GET AWAY, MOUSE!!

-Jesster


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Re: This is the most overly criticized improv faux pas ever!  
  Reply #16 Posted at Fri Mar 11 16:04:23 2005
hi



dont stop baby, let it go
 
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Nike ultimately unveiled the particular Nike Kyrie 3  
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Re: Nike ultimately unveiled the particular Nike Kyrie 3  
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Re: Nike ultimately unveiled the particular Nike Kyrie 3  
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valiance


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Re: Nike ultimately unveiled the particular Nike Kyrie 3  
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